"From extreme heat to intensive wildfires and rising floodwaters, climate change remains an urgent global threat. The world is facing severe climate crises from shrinking forests to rapidly melting glaciers and catastrophic flooding. The World Meteorological Organization issued a warning in May that extreme heat and arctic warming will continue to impact our lives for years to come." Michael Shank of NYU Center Global Affairs and Michael K. Dorsey of Sustainability Solutions Service at Arizona State University were guests on CGTN America this week. The Heat: Climate Crisis Sep 10, 2025 report video transcript below:
TRANSCRIPT:
The world is facing severe climate
0:02
crises from shrinking forests to rapidly
0:05
melting glacias and catastrophic
0:08
flooding. The World Meteorological
0:09
Organization issued a warning in May
0:12
that extreme heat and Arctic warming
0:14
will continue to impact our lives for
0:16
years to come. Later, we'll hear from
0:18
experts on plastics pollution and the
0:21
health of our oceans. But we begin with
0:23
the climate crisis. Joining us now from
0:25
Virginia is Michael Shank. He's an
0:27
adjunct professor with the Center for
0:29
Global Affairs at New York University.
0:31
And from Arizona, Michael K. Dorsey is
0:34
the director and chair of the Rob and
0:36
Melanie Walton Sustainability Solutions
0:39
Service at Arizona State University.
0:41
Thanks to both of you for being with us.
0:44
Michael Dorsy, let me start with you and
0:45
let's start with conditions in China. In
0:48
fact, you've just returned from China.
0:50
Well, the forecast there calls for heavy
0:52
and prolonged periods uh of very heavy
0:56
rainfall. Um and it's coming at a cost
0:58
for the country. In fact, there's a
1:00
report from the country's Ministry of
1:02
Emergency Management which says that
1:03
natural disasters uh in China in August
1:07
cost $2.75 billion.
1:10
What's behind these extreme conditions?
1:15
Extreme weather events are a direct
1:17
byproduct of the unfolding climate
1:19
crisis on it. Uh we've known this for
1:22
now decades. Uh and actually the
1:24
situation is getting worse. It's getting
1:25
worse in terms of the loss of lives,
1:28
particularly in the margins of countries
1:30
like China, but also in the United
1:31
States. We're celebrating,
1:33
unfortunately, this year a remarkable
1:35
event, the uh the anniversary of
1:37
Hurricane Katrina, which is still the
1:38
largest catastrophic weather event uh in
1:42
terms of real money costs in this
1:43
country and also in terms of loss of
1:45
life. More than 1,800 people lost their
1:47
lives in that catastrophic weather
1:49
event. So extreme temperatures and
1:51
extreme uh weather are directly a result
1:54
of the unfolding climate crisis that we
1:56
see happening right before our very
1:58
eyes.
1:59
Michael Shank uh let's look at the
2:01
situation in Pakistan. Monsoon rains
2:04
there have caused severe flooding and
2:07
forced millions of people to leave their
2:08
homes as well. uh and according to the
2:11
climate risk index, Pakistan is now one
2:14
of the most vulnerable countries to the
2:17
effects to the impact of climate change.
2:20
Um and if we look at some of what is
2:22
taking place there, I mean there's been
2:24
deforestation pretty extensive in that
2:27
country. There's also of course glacial
2:29
melting. Uh to what extent are those two
2:32
things compounding the crisis?
2:36
Well, they're definitely compounding the
2:37
crisis and there's little reprieve for
2:41
countries like Pakistan other than the
2:42
International Court of Justice saying
2:44
this summer that countries like Pakistan
2:47
can sue for reparations because they are
2:50
not responsible for the impacts that
2:51
they're witnessing and experiencing. Of
2:54
course, more developed countries in the
2:56
OECD are most responsible for historical
2:59
or archived emissions, and they would be
3:01
the ones to pay reparations to countries
3:04
like Pakistan and other countries that
3:06
are seeing these kinds of hits from very
3:08
unnatural disasters, which I'm naming
3:11
specifically because we created them and
3:13
exacerbated them and escalated them with
3:15
our greenhouse gas emissions. So yet to
3:19
be seen in terms of how courts will rule
3:21
in the future. But given that we keep
3:23
seeing these kinds of stories pop up in
3:25
the news cycle now every week, every
3:27
month, these are regular events and will
3:30
only escalate in number and ferocity and
3:32
frequency. So we need to set up
3:34
mechanisms to help countries like
3:36
Pakistan prepare and ultimately recover
3:38
from these kinds of disasters.
3:40
Right. Michael Shank, of course, going
3:41
down the legal path is uh is one way to
3:46
uh address this, but it doesn't address
3:48
the root cause, does it?
3:51
No. No, it doesn't. And if we look to
3:53
COP 30 in Brazil and just take as a
3:56
litmus test how many countries have
3:58
submitted their updated NDC's nationally
4:02
determined contributions in advance of
4:04
the UN General Assembly summit later
4:06
September in New York City. Very few
4:09
have and only one or two have created
4:12
timelines targets for 2035 and beyond.
4:15
So
4:17
ultimately the NDC NDC's were intended
4:19
to ratchet up ambition and accelerate
4:22
climate action. But based on what we've
4:25
seen so far and if folks are interested
4:26
you can check out climate action tracker
4:28
to see who has submitted and how
4:31
aggressive or ambitious your country is
4:33
in committing to 2030 2035 and
4:36
unfortunately very few are stepping up
4:38
to the plate.
4:39
Right. Michael Dorsy, there was a study
4:41
that was published in Nature magazine
4:43
which said that uh glacias in the Alps
4:47
and the Pyrenees have lost about 40% of
4:50
their mass. That's a huge number and
4:52
that's since 2000. But in 2022 and 2023
4:57
there were records set in that rate of
5:00
loss that I'm talking about that also
5:03
coincided with peak global temperatures.
5:06
uh question is how can that trend be
5:09
reversed?
5:12
So we need to take aggressive action
5:15
against the problem of carbon pollution
5:18
which is driving the unfolding climate
5:20
crisis. Uh I would say that legal
5:22
approaches can uh begin to pick away at
5:26
the problem of carbon pollution. But we
5:29
also need to have more aggressive
5:31
regulatory rules that prevent uh those
5:34
that are emitting uh the carbon
5:36
pollution in the first place and putting
5:37
it in the atmosphere. We need to also
5:39
shift monies out of those polluters and
5:42
away from them. Right now the World Bank
5:44
and other in international institutions
5:46
still invest tremendously uh in fossil
5:49
fuel pollution and and the sort of the
5:51
industries that are causing it in the
5:52
first place. And at the same time we
5:54
need to put those monies out of the
5:56
polluting uh the carbon pollution and
5:58
put them into the solution set which is
6:00
really renewable energy. So we need a
6:02
multiaceted approach that focuses on uh
6:05
getting out of the bad stuff the carbon
6:07
pollution and putting monies into it and
6:09
then getting more aggressively into the
6:11
good stuff. On the good stuff uh in
6:13
terms of scaling and investing in
6:15
renewable energy that's actually
6:16
growing. Uh this year we're looking to
6:18
be past $2 trillion invested worldwide
6:21
uh in renewable energy. primarily in
6:23
solar and wind. Uh and that's going to
6:25
be a record uh setting amount of
6:27
investment on the planet and that's only
6:29
set to continue because it's up from the
6:32
uh over one trillion from years past.
6:36
Michael Shank uh you know nearly all of
6:39
the planet uh experienced very high
6:42
temperatures this past summer. If we
6:43
look at you know the temperatures in
6:45
Asia, Africa, the Americas, in Europe um
6:48
there were very high temperatures. And
6:50
now if we look at uh you know what has
6:52
happened say in in Europe nearly 1
6:54
million hectares of land burned across
6:56
the European Union making it the worst
6:58
wildfire season since 2006. So what is
7:02
the connection between climate change uh
7:04
and these high temperatures we are
7:06
seeing and these wildfires.
7:09
Yeah the connection is clear as the
7:11
world heats up and we've seen now we are
7:14
witnessing the 10 hottest years on
7:17
record have happened in the last 10
7:19
years. So if you think of the Paris
7:21
climate agreement in 2015, since then,
7:23
the last 10 years have been the hottest
7:25
years on record. And what that does is
7:27
of course dries up land and forest,
7:30
creates it more uh more timber ready,
7:32
more fire ready. And so we're seeing
7:34
more fires as a result, and we're seeing
7:36
more flooding as a result. And what many
7:39
subnationals like cities are doing
7:40
around the world is they're creating
7:43
staff to focus specifically on this. So
7:45
you see more chief heat officers around
7:47
the world at the city level. you see
7:49
more of course fire responding, but this
7:52
idea that we create staff to to focus
7:56
solely on the climate impacts facing
7:58
society is an interesting one. We're
8:00
starting to see again more cities hire
8:02
chief heat officers. Perhaps we could
8:04
have chief flood officers, chief fire
8:06
officers, chief drought officers to
8:09
focus solely on these climate impacts
8:11
that are only escalating because of the
8:12
warming planet.
8:15
And uh we're also seeing uh Michael
8:17
Shank with these wildfires that there
8:19
are also very high levels of air
8:22
pollution. Um and this could be very far
8:25
away from uh where these fires are
8:27
burning. Here's uh Lorenzo Labrador who
8:30
is the chief scientific officer at the
8:32
World Meteorological Organization. Let's
8:35
listen.
8:37
Even though you are quite far from the
8:40
sources of fires, these the smoke
8:42
pollution and the uh PM2.5 that comes
8:46
from those fires have the power to
8:48
basically go across borders and travel
8:50
very long distances and degrade their
8:52
quality in far away cities. We have also
8:55
seen that basically from um wildfires as
9:00
far a field as Canada making it all the
9:03
way across Europe.
9:06
So Michael Shank here you have a
9:07
situation where air quality is really
9:09
poor because of what is being spread by
9:12
these fires. There's high levels of
9:14
pollution. I mean how does one address
9:15
that? How do cities address that?
9:19
Yeah, we know that air pollution is
9:21
connected with premature death and
9:24
cities like London have created some
9:26
legal infrastructure to prosecute uh
9:29
based on what air pollution can do
9:31
including killing of urban residents. Uh
9:34
we also know based on recent studies
9:36
that air pollution leads to early
9:38
dementia. So, we have the health
9:40
arguments in place to prevent and stop
9:43
air pollution. And as people witness
9:44
more of it, experience it, feel it, uh,
9:47
floating across borders because air
9:49
pollution certainly fires no borders, I
9:52
think we'll see more action based on
9:54
health frames, health interest, and some
9:56
of our cities are putting their
9:57
environmental sustainability programs in
9:59
the departments of health because that's
10:02
the the leading frame in which the
10:04
public can understand the problem here.
10:06
So we are seeing cities start to create
10:08
legal protections for their urban
10:11
residents. Uh but we're also seeing more
10:13
studies out I think making the case for
10:15
people that air pollution not only
10:17
causes premature death but also also
10:19
causes premature suffering like dementia
10:21
like I mentioned.
10:22
Michael Dorsey um cities in China have
10:26
managed to improve their air quality
10:28
pretty dramatically. I mean I remember a
10:29
time when the pollution in a city like
10:32
Beijing was very very high. It was
10:34
extremely unhealthy. But how did China
10:36
do that?
10:38
Well, the air quality index in places
10:40
like China is really uh gotten better
10:44
over the years because of some of the
10:46
processes and tendencies that Michael
10:48
Shank mentioned. You've got uh committed
10:50
regulators that are working with
10:52
industry and uh levying regulations on
10:55
industry to reduce uh those emissions
10:58
that which ultimately lead to
10:59
improvements in air quality. uh at the
11:01
same time in addition or a little bit
11:04
beyond those sort of heat officers and
11:07
folks working in the public health
11:08
divisions of cities across China but
11:10
also across other cities around the
11:12
world. We've got folks that are
11:14
committed to scaling the solution set as
11:16
well right alongside of checking the
11:18
problem. So we've got chief
11:19
sustainability officers across cities
11:22
around the world and they're working
11:24
oftentimes with utilities and industry
11:26
not just to reduce their emissions but
11:28
to scale up investments in renewable
11:30
energy uh that don't uh offer those
11:33
emissions in the first place. So we got
11:34
folks that are working on the problem
11:36
but also folks that are scaling the
11:37
solution set. And we've got to do both
11:39
of those things at at the same time. And
11:41
that's really the core of what we do
11:43
here at the sustainability solution
11:44
service. work on scaling the solution as
11:47
well as assisting those that are working
11:48
on the problem.
11:49
Right. And one other thing uh and this
11:51
is in Arizona where you are right now
11:53
Michael Dorsey um the medical examiner
11:56
there is investigating more than 400
11:59
deaths that could be heat related. Um I
12:03
mean is is these high temperatures that
12:04
we seeing right now extreme heat uh how
12:08
uh big a public health emergency has it
12:11
become?
12:12
It's absolutely a public health
12:14
emergency that uh has really been
12:16
growing year on year. Uh it's been
12:18
growing in part because the last 10
12:20
years since we left the Paris climate
12:22
negotiations have been the hottest on
12:24
record. Uh and that trend is likely to
12:26
continue. And really we see those that
12:28
die from heat related uh death are those
12:31
on the margins of society, the poorest
12:33
of the poor, those that are uh with uh
12:36
lacking housing and so forth. So it's a
12:39
real problem. uh but the problem is
12:41
being addressed by those that are in
12:43
those public health departments but at
12:44
the same time those that are scaling the
12:46
solution set that uh doesn't offer
12:48
pollution in terms of renewable energy
12:50
and so forth.
12:52
Michael Shank, what kind of progress are
12:53
we seeing with cities trying to address
12:56
this issue trying to mitigate the
12:58
problem by creating green spaces?
13:02
So a lot of cities are scaling up their
13:04
sponge ability, if you want to call it
13:06
that, becoming more
13:08
sponge friendly to absorb flooding, sea
13:11
level rise, storm surge, etc. So you are
13:14
definitely seeing cities invest in in
13:16
green spaces. You're also seeing cities
13:19
scale up their resilience hubs and
13:21
resilience departments in part because
13:23
in some countries like the United States
13:25
where climate and sustainability are
13:27
words that are soon on the chopping
13:29
block or are currently on the chopping
13:30
block in farright
13:32
uh governments either in Europe or the
13:34
United States. You're seeing resilience
13:36
as the framework that is more
13:37
multipartisan, apartisan, nonpartisan.
13:40
So there's a lot of investment and I'm
13:42
talking to cities all the time that are
13:44
changing their language to be more
13:46
resilience focused and resilience
13:48
forward. So that's a helpful framework
13:50
for cities to invest in the kind of
13:52
green spaces that will help with
13:53
certainly flood and storm surge etc.
13:56
Right. I've just got a little over a
13:57
minute left. I want to get both your
13:59
views on the upcoming climate conference
14:01
that's going to be taking place in
14:03
Brazil in November. That's COP 30.
14:05
Michael Dorsy, let me start with you
14:06
first. What are your expectations?
14:10
Well, we need to have more monies
14:12
committed through the multilateral
14:13
system to the solution set to investing
14:16
in renewable energy, particularly wind
14:18
and solar. We also need to have stronger
14:20
regulations uh and put on those that are
14:23
generating the problem, those in the
14:24
fossil fuel sector. If we can get those
14:26
two things, we can leave uh the 30th
14:29
meeting of the parties of the United
14:31
Nations framework convention on climate
14:32
change successfully.
14:34
Right. Michael Shank uh you know,
14:36
Michael Dorsey mentioned money there.
14:37
There's also climate change adaptation,
14:39
transition to uh green energy as well.
14:42
So, what are you expecting?
14:45
Well, I think we're going to see a lot
14:47
of civil resistance on the road to COP
14:50
30. I think the publics are becoming
14:52
more and more frustrated with lack of
14:54
national leadership for the reasons I
14:56
mentioned earlier. And so we're starting
14:58
to see in Yale and George Mason
15:00
University have done some recent polling
15:02
on this, the appetite for nonviolent
15:04
action in response to the lackluster
15:07
leadership at the national level. I
15:09
think we'll see more of that going
15:10
forward, which could put pressure on
15:11
these national governments to take more
15:13
leadership at COP 30 in Brazil. So we'll
15:16
see. And TBD,
15:18
yes, we shall see. Michael Shank,
15:20
Michael Dorsy, thanks to both of you for
15:22
being with us. Plastic pollution is
15:24
considered one of the biggest
15:25
environmental problems of our lifetime.
15:28
Every year, millions of tons of plastic
15:30
waste end up in landfills and makes its
15:33
way to our oceans, harming wildlife and
15:36
ecosystems. In August, nearly 200
15:38
nations gathered at a United Nations
15:40
conference in Geneva to negotiate a
15:43
treaty to tackle the explosive growth in
15:45
plastic waste. But after extensive
15:47
negotiations, the talks ended in
15:50
deadlock. For more, let's bring in our
15:52
next guests. Joining us now from
15:54
Montreal is Alexandra Harrington. She's
15:56
the chair of the IUCN World Commission
16:00
on Environmental Law Agreement on
16:02
Plastic Pollution. And Julia Cohen is
16:04
the co-founder and managing director of
16:06
Plastic Pollution Coalition right here
16:08
in Washington DC. Thanks very much to
16:11
both of you for being with us. Julia, uh
16:13
that conference that I was talking about
16:14
that took place in Geneva. Well, the UN
16:17
had hoped to have a plastics treaty in
16:19
place with up to 175 signaries. Um, that
16:23
would have placed curbs on plastics
16:25
pollution, but that was not to be. As I
16:28
mentioned, the talks ended in deadlock.
16:30
Negotiations failed. Uh, how big a
16:33
setback is that?
16:36
We don't see it as a setback. Um, we
16:39
held the line. We are left with the same
16:42
text pretty much that we came into these
16:46
negotiations with. And you know there
16:50
were a lot of distra distractions and
16:52
delay tactics being used by the
16:54
prochemical industry and countries very
16:58
much dependent on and influenced by
16:59
them. And so no treaty is better than a
17:03
weak treaty to us. And we continue to
17:05
advocate and work towards a strong
17:08
binding treaty with caps on plastic
17:10
production, phasing out chemicals of
17:12
concern, protecting people on the front
17:14
lines, and all of us, you know, being
17:17
protected from being polluted by
17:19
microplastics.
17:20
Right. And Julia, at these talks in
17:22
Geneva, what was the main sticking point
17:24
or sticking points?
17:28
Well, I think key to what I just said is
17:31
that there were a lot of distractions
17:32
from pro states trying to keep this
17:36
treaty from going upstream and not to be
17:38
binding and to only talk about waste
17:42
management and recycling.
17:45
Alexandra, um, several countries
17:48
expressed disappointment, bitter
17:50
disappointment, uh, some calling it a
17:52
failure of multilateralism. Here's a
17:54
delegate from the island nation of
17:56
Tvalu. Let's listen.
18:00
Unfortunately, despite our best efforts,
18:02
no agreement has been reached and we
18:05
leave empty-handed
18:06
for our islands. This means that without
18:08
the global global cooperation and state
18:12
action, millions of tons of plastic
18:14
waste will continue to be dumped in our
18:16
oceans, affecting our ecosystem, food
18:19
security, livelihood, and cultures.
18:23
So Alexandra, can you give us a sense of
18:25
how uh plastics pollution affects island
18:28
nations like Tuvalu?
18:31
Of course. Absolutely. And um I think if
18:34
we can come back to the failure question
18:35
at some point, I would also like to
18:37
address that um particular issue and and
18:39
agree with Julia. Um but what we know
18:42
and and again this is something that um
18:45
we have a great deal of scientific
18:46
research on um is that plastic pollution
18:50
affects both uh terrestrial and ocean uh
18:54
systems but differently um but equally
18:57
and is very much interlin. And so for
18:59
island nations like Tuvalu uh and many
19:02
of the Pacific Islands or the pieces as
19:04
they're they're often called um this is
19:07
an existential issue. It is something
19:10
that literally washes up on their shores
19:12
every day. It also has a very large
19:15
impact on their tourist activities and
19:17
economies, their fishing activities,
19:19
their food sources. Um and in many
19:22
instances has a great deal of exposure
19:25
options or potential for chemicals and
19:28
for other types of very dangerous uh
19:31
wastes that are causing not only
19:34
immediate impacts but also that have the
19:36
potential to be very much lifelong and
19:39
also generational impacts uh for current
19:41
and future generations living in those
19:43
islands.
19:45
Alexandra, as Julia pointed out, you
19:48
know, these talks deadlocked, but rather
19:49
have no treaty than have a weak treaty.
19:52
So, where do you see it going to from
19:54
here?
19:56
So, as as an international lawyer, I I
19:58
do certainly agree uh with Julia that,
20:01
you know, when we're looking at a text,
20:03
the rush to have a text also sometimes
20:05
makes us not realize that we we do need
20:07
to make sure we're having a very good
20:08
text. And so indeed I do think that
20:11
Julia is completely correct in saying
20:13
that no text is a better option than
20:15
something that would not meet the
20:17
mandate that was given to the the
20:19
negotiation process by the environment
20:21
assembly. From here what uh we will
20:25
likely see is um another session that
20:27
will be called a 5.3
20:29
um and it will be meeting at a time and
20:32
place to be determined. Most likely uh
20:36
it may meet after the UN environment
20:38
assembly meeting which will be uh in
20:40
early December and which may perhaps
20:43
give us a bit more guidance at that
20:44
point on timing. Um but we can expect
20:47
that we will see the negotiations
20:49
continuing forward. And while we did see
20:52
a great deal of of um I think
20:55
frustration coming out of that this
20:56
particular meeting, we also then did see
20:59
a great deal of uh commitment to the
21:02
idea of having um a treaty and the
21:06
necessity of a treaty. So we will see
21:08
another session in the future and then
21:10
we'll see hopefully how we might be able
21:13
to progress further from there.
21:16
Julia, of course, plastics are
21:17
everywhere right now. Everything comes
21:18
in plastic. Our food comes in plastic.
21:20
Drinking bottles are made out of
21:21
plastic. You buy anything online, it
21:24
comes in plastic. I mean, is there a
21:26
strong case to be made for recycling
21:29
um in addition to bringing down the
21:32
volume of plastic that is being
21:33
produced?
21:35
The the most important case is to bring
21:38
down the volume. We can't recycle our
21:40
way out of this problem. There is
21:43
already more plastic on the planet and
21:46
existence and has been made than we can
21:49
manage. Um we are at crisis levels of
21:53
what already exists and we are at a
21:56
moment where not only are there about
21:59
480 metric tons of plastic being
22:02
produced annually but that this is set
22:05
to triple by 2050. So you know we need
22:08
to turn off the plastic tap. We really
22:11
literally need to stop producing so much
22:13
plastic and we need to start with the
22:15
stuff that's single use. So food
22:18
packaging, sachets, cups, bottles, bags
22:23
need to be, you know, done with. We we
22:27
cannot survive as humanity and this
22:29
planet if we continue to operate at the
22:31
levels we're operating right now.
22:33
And Alexander, of course, the challenges
22:35
that we face with this kind of uh
22:37
pollution is that they're all
22:38
interconnected. uh if we see what's
22:40
happening with the impact of climate
22:42
change as well. Well, one of the UN 2030
22:45
sustainable development goals is called
22:47
life below water. The goal is
22:49
sustainable consumption of marine
22:51
resources while at the same time
22:53
protecting um these marine ecosystems
22:57
and reducing pollution. Uh 2030 is not
23:00
far away. Are these goals going to be
23:02
met?
23:04
It is indeed not far away. Um I think
23:06
what we can say now is that at least
23:08
some aspects of them will be. So the
23:10
within the goals themselves we have a
23:12
number of different targets as well as
23:14
indicators. Um, and it may be difficult
23:16
to entirely meet the the goal itself,
23:20
but I think we are seeing a good deal of
23:22
progress in terms of legal designations
23:25
of areas as being protected areas,
23:27
marine protected areas, especially those
23:29
coming out of the recently adopted uh
23:32
biodiversity beyond national
23:33
jurisdiction treaty, the BB&J agreement.
23:36
Um, and I I do think that a number of
23:38
countries are starting to become more
23:40
aware of the plastic uh connection
23:42
between oceans and marine ecosystem
23:45
protections and the provisions of things
23:47
like SG um 15 on life uh below water and
23:52
how that then winds up impacting on uh
23:55
broader issues as well. So we are seeing
23:57
a number of national measures that are
23:59
being adopted even while we're looking
24:01
to the international system to then come
24:03
up with other more creative solutions
24:05
like the plastics treaty potentially um
24:07
to hopefully be able to meet as much of
24:09
that as we can by 2030.
24:12
We're also hearing uh Alexander of a new
24:14
term right now. It's called plastics uh
24:17
plastics addiction which is negatively
24:19
affecting our health. What exactly is
24:21
that? Um I mean this threat of
24:23
microlastics that we hear about.
24:26
So I think microplastics are things that
24:28
we hear about but we don't necessarily
24:29
understand what they they really mean
24:32
and what they really mean is that uh
24:34
they are a breakdown of plastics at at
24:38
certain levels um but that is not always
24:40
a good thing. I mean you know there
24:41
there is a breakdown and people often
24:43
think that is a good part of of any type
24:45
of um kind of degrading process. It is
24:49
not uh in the microplastics context
24:51
because it is something that we have
24:53
seen scientifically and again a number
24:55
of studies have have proven uh become
24:58
part of the water which is then consumed
25:02
by uh fish by humans by every form of
25:06
life uh also become part of the air and
25:08
the soil. So we wind up breathing it in
25:11
uh we breathe it in it becomes part of
25:13
our bodies it becomes part of our own
25:15
organisms. uh indeed we know that that
25:18
microplastics have been passed now from
25:20
mother to child through placenta uh
25:23
transfer. So it is something that is
25:26
present in our environment and more than
25:28
that is also present now in our bodies
25:31
um and the sense of plastic addiction uh
25:34
has to do with our consumption and the
25:36
way that we are as a society a global
25:38
society consuming but it also has to do
25:41
with our own health and our own
25:43
environmental health as well. Julia, one
25:46
of the uh other uh unfortunate
25:49
developments we've seen with this kind
25:51
of pollution is that it's become so
25:52
politicized
25:54
uh especially here in the United States.
25:55
I mean, President Trump has considered,
25:57
for instance, a climate change denier.
25:59
He signed an executive order to bring
26:02
plastic straws back. Uh the previous
26:05
Biden administration did order a gradual
26:07
reduction in their use. Uh and that also
26:11
included plastic cutlery and packaging
26:14
as well. But now we have this other
26:16
order which reverses that from President
26:18
Trump. What kind of impact will that
26:20
have uh on the environment?
26:23
Well, I think this is problem is so much
26:25
bigger than straws and utensils and we
26:29
don't want to be distracted by putting
26:32
energy and attention just into that.
26:34
There are 120 countries who are all
26:38
aiming for a more ambitious global
26:41
treaty
26:42
and there's a lot of great work
26:43
happening um as Alexander said at the
26:46
state and local and you know even
26:48
individual country level around the
26:50
world. Um so many countries including
26:53
the United States have extended producer
26:56
responsibility bills in particular in
26:58
the United States and Maine and Oregon
27:00
are very strong ones. There are others
27:02
in other states that are getting watered
27:04
down and we need to make sure that we
27:05
have some of the strongest local and
27:08
state policies and regulations on the
27:11
broader plastic pollution crisis. Um,
27:13
and then even in California, the
27:15
attorney general of California is suing
27:16
Exon Mobile for, you know, their their
27:20
continued decades work on, you know,
27:24
distrust building about what they're
27:26
doing and, you know, plastic pollution
27:28
specifically. And then in addition, we
27:30
have over 450 businesses that signed
27:33
onto the Champion of Change um
27:36
initiative and they're calling for world
27:38
governments to negotiate an ambitious
27:40
treaty as well. And they are innovative
27:43
businesses using alternative materials
27:46
um creating reuse and refill systems.
27:48
And this is going on around the world.
27:50
And so we have the solutions now. And we
27:53
really need to start uplifting,
27:55
implementing, supporting, providing
27:57
resources for the solutions.
28:01
Julia, you know, you mentioned some
28:03
states that are taking action here in
28:05
the United States that is um I mean,
28:07
could that be expanded? Could other
28:08
states be encouraged to take their
28:10
action regardless of what the federal
28:12
government is doing?
28:14
Yes, 100%. And we have a global plastic
28:16
laws database where we are tracking all
28:19
the past laws around the world that
28:21
includes extended producer
28:23
responsibility laws in the United
28:24
States. And there are there is
28:26
contextual information about the you
28:29
know pros and cons of the different
28:30
versions of laws that are happening all
28:32
over the world. And in order to have a
28:34
global treaty, those ministers need
28:36
their countries to also have the kinds
28:38
of laws and policies in our own country
28:41
and their countries in order to support
28:44
ministers in negotiating a global treaty
28:46
as well.
28:47
Okay, and that is where we have to leave
28:49
it. Thanks to both of you for being with
28:50
us. That is it for this edition of the
28:53
Heat. I'm Arand Naidu in Washington.
CGTN in Washington, D.C., is the American arm of the English language China Global Television Network.
