TRANSCRIPT
2,000 dead and hundreds missing in one of the worst storm seasons in Southeast Asia's recorded history. Cyclones, typhoons, and back-to-back tropical storms are causing floods and landslides so large some areas may never recover. So, how can countries continue to face this escalating threat? And can they afford to keep rebuilding? This is inside story.
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Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Darin Abuga. Southeast Asia is facing one of its worst storm seasons on record. Thousands of people have died or are missing across Indonesia, the Philippines, Vietnam, Thailand, and Sri Lanka. And another storm is currently forming in the Philippine Sea. Central Vietnam saw the second highest known total of 24-hour rainfall this year. And while governments are promising to rebuild, it's not clear how they can afford to do so every year as the storm seasons get worse.
At the same time, the UN announced on Sunday that it slashed its 2026 budget for response to war and natural disasters by half. These countries are increasingly on their own, left to try to put cities and lives back together, storm after storm. So, how are these storms changing lives and livelihoods? And what does the future of flood recovery look like across Southeast Asia? We'll put those questions to our guests in a moment. First, this report from Image and Kimber.
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This Indonesian man is one of the thousands of victims of flooding across South Asia. *I was swept away by the current. Then all the houses collapsed from above. My neck was trapped. Then my house collapsed and was swept under.* Relentless rain has caused floods and landslides across Indonesia and in Sri Lanka, Thailand, and Malaysia.
Hundreds of people have died. Hundreds more are missing. Thousands have lost their homes and millions have been affected. But this was not the first major storm to hit Asia this year. From June, major flooding in Pakistan killed more than a thousand people and affected nearly 6 million. A super typhoon hit the Philippines, China, Vietnam, and Lao in September. In October, typhoon Kalmagi battered the Philippines and Vietnam again, as well as Cambodia. And that's just to name a few.
The collective cost of the cleanup is estimated in the billions. Indonesia alone says it will be $3 billion. And for many of the countries hit, that is becoming an annual unsustainable burden. The World Bank estimates that Pakistan, which is regularly hit with both worsening droughts and flooding, needs around $348 billion to address its climate challenges by 2030.
But global aid is dramatically reduced. The US and Europe have cut foreign aid instead increasing defense spending and the UN emergency relief has had to cut its budget in half for 2026.
*We are overstretched, underfunded and under attack. Only 20% of our appeals are supported and we drive the ambulance towards the fire on your behalf. But we are also now being asked to put the fire out. And there is not enough water in the tank.*
At the UN climate summit in Brazil last month, governments agreed to give around 1.3 trillion a year up to 2035 to assist low-income countries to adapt to the changing climate and avert disaster as well as respond to it. But while billions have been promised in the past, only a trickle of what was promised has arrived.
*Developed countries who are responsible for the climate crisis, they are not providing money. And without climate finance, these polluters are making billions of dollars every day. And we need to make them pay and also fill the fund which is the loss and damage fund.*
They're also not living up to their promises to reduce one of the major root causes of climate change, carbon emissions. So the world continues to barrel into a climate crisis, leaving those affected the most to suffer alone. Imaging Kimber Alazer inside story.
Let's now bring in our guest. Joining us from Paris is Alexander Bour who's an environmental economist and CEO of Sibola Partners. In New Delhi, Sahar Raheda is a program officer for the climate change program at the center for science and environment. And in Hong Kong, Benjamin Horton is a dean of the school of energy and environment and professor of earth science at City University of Hong Kong. Welcome to you all. Thanks so much for your time. Benjamin Horton, we'll start with you in Hong Kong. So, as we know, this year's storms and floods have been described as record-breaking when it comes to their intensity as well as their scale. When you look at these events, how unusual are they compared to past events? And is it realistic to expect such extremes to become the new normal for future planning?
They're very unusual, but they're not unsurprising. We could have predicted quite easily that this would be a record-breaking year because you have record-breaking temperatures driven by climate change that produces more water vapor in the atmosphere. So when you get a naturally wet season in the monsoons, they are now more intense. They're more frequent. They occur in regions that aren't usually prepared for such disasters.
And that's why we see such tragedies in the loss of lives and livelihoods around many many developing countries. Sah disasters often they hit the poorest people the hardest right the ordinary also the ordinary person.
What are the social and economic impacts that you're seeing on the poor, on informal workers, on rural communities that are perhaps not even reported in the media?
That's a fair question to ask. I think we've reached the point where it's well documented that there are both economic, social, non-economic and all kinds of losses and damages basically that come about because of climate worsened disasters. I think these include first of all your basic damage to infrastructure and property. People's entire houses you know get wiped out in a matter of minutes especially when it's things like flooding. apart from that though you also have the loss of life livestock extensive crop damage hectares and hectares of land.
The extreme flooding that the northern state of Punjab in India saw just earlier this year led to extensive crop damage in it happened during a time when Paddy and you know rice crops were supposed to be at their most sensitive. So you see if depending on what kind of livelihood people are engaged in and of course there's devastating death toll itself and a loss of life and just the amount of time for recovery and and rebuilding infrastructure and and the amount of time that it takes for children to go back to school for people to kind of function in any kind of a normal again.
All of these don't necessarily get quantified easily but also you know are included in the span of both economic non-economic damages due to disasters.
Okay, let's stick with that point you make about quantifying and bring in Alexand because you say Alex al Alexand traditional estimates of disaster damage often focus on insured and replaceable assets. So when you look at countries in South and Southeast Asia, is that then a misleading way of of of trying to assess just how much the damage has cost?
Well, it's not a misleading way, but it's an insufficient way to assess these costs. Indeed, having insurance schemes is useful to cover to recover. but unfortunately, it's first for the least developed countries very unusual to have this insurance scheme in place. It's not easy because it's not affordable.
So the the fact is that we see that globally only 40% of all the natural assets are and and not only assets, all the assets in total that are hit by extreme events are insured. So it there is a missing huge missing part 60% and this indeed percentage it's much much higher in emerging or developing countries.
So this is where the problem is and the only way to to find another mean to to cover and to recover is by having cooperation mechanism at the international level which are as you were saying in introduction not easy the funds between countries and we had recently the cup in BM where the numbers are not there in order for the the people that are the most vulnerable to be covered by this cost. So this is really problematic and they are left on their own.
So then just a followup for you Alexon, how should we rethink economic assessments to better to be able to capture these long-term losses perhaps in a more efficient way?
Well, I think all the challenges are always to continue first to really to assess all the the cost of adaptation versus the cost of inaction. That's what we do in detail. So basically showing that it's important to invest in inflammatory adaptation to prevent some of the hazards that are occurring. And the other thing is to find some mechanism like loss and damages fund that is under discussion at the international level in order to to rebuild when some assets are destroyed or or cultures agricultures and so on.
So this is really a challenge. At the international level again the discussion is pretty difficult because there was the expectation to have 1.3 trillion of US dollar available and we are only at 300 billion. So you see the huge gap between what is not even available, what the data promises and these numbers, and what is needed.
Okay. Benjamin basically that's really the challenge and this is then you can go into details country by country and this is also just maybe a last word of of the work is to be able indeed to come with this assessment in order to to to have a convincing calculation of the needs from all these countries that have no insurance today.
Okay, understood. Benjamin in terms of adaptation, is there a point, do you think, where adaptation may no longer be enough where migration in fact becomes the only viable option for some regions? Are we headed in that direction?
Well, unfortunately, yes. you know the scientific community have been predicting the impacts of increasing greenhouse gas emissions on temperatures which cause droughts and wildfires on moisture vapor which causes flooding and landslides and typhoons on increasing heat raising sea levels. So at some point if we don't solve the problem and the problem is our emissions of greenhouse gases the increases in temperature going to be too great that the storms that people receive will be too intense and they'll be too frequent that it will cause so many problems.
That's why we have this concept of planetary boundaries which was part of the COP meeting in Paris in 1995 going through to 2015 where we stated that you couldn't go beyond the planetary boundary of 1.5°C warming above pre-industrial levels and we are at that boundary right now. So what we should be doing is we should be doubling down on solving the problems with the solutions that we have. Solar energy now is the cheapest form of energy that we have ever had. It's cheaper than coal, natural gas and oil. We have the solutions readily available to solve this problem.
But if we do not and we keep on putting greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, our adaptations everywhere in the world, developed and developing countries, rich and poor, global north, global south, will not be sufficient and then we'll have some significant problems and one of them as you stated is human migration. So in the topic that I study, I study sea level rise. So if you increase atmospheric temperatures, you increase ocean temperatures, your land-based ice that Greenland and Antarctica melt. What can you do to stop that?
Well, if you have slow rates of sea level rise, you can protect your shoreline. You can live with sea level. With high rates of sea level rise, people have to migrate because they lose their place that they live along our coastlines. We are a coastal society. Five of our 10 largest cities on planet earth are on coastal regions, right? So it's a really significant problem. you have to solve the issue which is greenhouse gases and then you have to think about right how do we adapt because climate change is here now. So it is a new normal but it's always going to get worse. I mean so people think about these record-breaking storms that we're having in 2025. Well, this time next year they will be worse and in 2027 they'll be worse than that and in 2028 and 2030 and 2040 and 2050 until we solve the problem. Sah that's quite a warning, right? I mean what are you seeing in in countries in Asia when it comes to climatedriven displacement or or internal migration amongst communities that are repeatedly hit by floods? are we seeing these signs of communities leaving? well yeah in certain parts of the world definitely but if I were to speak to just South Asia for a moment more than even I think climate Yeah. more than even climate migration per se or something that can be termed climate migration. What we're seeing is a people really battered year after year just like Melanin just pointed out and a government that is trying to do its best to support these people in adapting and post- disaster needs. I think it's it's it while there there is a loss of life and there is destruction of property and the and the span of effects like we just said and migration is probably just around the corner at larger scales. What's more important is to realize that solar might be the cheapest but the barriers in the international financial system make it more expensive for certain countries to access it at scale still or you know the IMF style austerity or like we're looking at countries ridden by sovereign debt. So already mounting fiscal pressures for governments to then try and prioritize only climate action or development and even ending up at a question of development versus climate is a problem in and of itself. So yeah, I think I'd just like to stop there. Okay. Alexand when when populations are forced to relocate due to these repeated disasters that we're discussing, how is this accounted for economically? Do the current models that are in place capture these long-term damages on populations? Well, it's starting and this is something where we we lack of data. We don't have many data on that. I mean we don't have data in terms of how many you know in terms of how many people we have to migr migrate and we don't have even less information about how costly this will be. But the first studies are are coming out with the organization for migration international organization for migration. So this is the type of work that and will enable to see the the costs of of this you know in terms of know loss of the whole entire countries. What we see is are already some agreements between countries. We see that in the Pacific between for instance the Kiribath and the Fijes where you have approximately 100,000 inhabitants in the Kiribath that will have to move the the highest point in the Kiribath in the Pacific is 2 m high. So you can imagine how at risk they are and there is already an agreement with the Fiji so that it's 100,000 people will be able to move to resettle in the Fiji. But this is the the one of the examples but when we'll have more migration such type of agreements and and hence also such type of financial agreements will indeed be on the table. we are lacking of data so far about that. definitely this is one of the key challenges for research on climate economics in the future. And Benjamin, from the from the scientific point of view, what kinds of infrastructures or settlement planning changes could reduce vulnerability? and and are these easy to implement in areas or in countries that may have limited resources? Well, I think it again, I'm bound to say this because I'm a scientist, but it starts off with the science. If you don't know what the problem is, then how can you think about adaptations and solutions? So I need do believe that there needs to be investment in the science to try and understand where the impacts will be greatest. And what we see with the latest climate models is that climate impacts are happening in places that don't normally experience it or they're happening in places at times of years that are unexpected. Or once they've had one storm of the century, well, they find out two weeks later it's another storm of the century. When they see a typhoon at a low category offshore, they think they're safe. And then lo and behold, 24 hours later, it's a cat 5 hurricane barreling down on Jamaica at unprecedented wind velocities, storm surges, and rainfall. So, you do need that. And then once you've got that information, you try and think about adaptation. And yes, it will cost a lot of money to protect the world. But if you make sure that you target your funding in the most vulnerable communities, there are success stories. success stories that use mother nature to protect your region. So again, on sea level rise, yes, we can always think that we're going to turn ourselves into a new Netherlands with large tidal barages, but mother earth has been protecting coastlines for millions of years with oysters and coral reefs and mangroves. These are the natural protectors that have commonly been removed for economic benefit when they don't truly understand. But a mangrove, for example, has a variety of benefits. It protects the shoreline. It creates a biodiversity hotspot. The roots within a mangrove filter water so you have cleaner drinking water supplies. And then also, paradoxically, these mangroves store carbon. So they actually provide the solution. The same can be said of flood planes for riverine flooding or tropical rainforest. Mother nature does provide our solutions and therefore we can think about that and make sure we don't build in the most vulnerable areas. So a flood plane by its name is a plane where flood waters dissipate. Why do we build in a flood plane? Especially now when we know that our defenses of the 20th and early 21st century are not sufficient for 2025 and they won't be sufficient in 2030 and certainly not in 2040. This is the one of the most urgent problems. Got it. Sahar., from the perspective if we look at social justice and and equity for a moment, how do you think climate adaptation strategies can be designed to support resilience as well as environmental justice? What needs to be done?, I think to answer that question, there's two ends of the spectrum that I'd like to like look at it from. Right? We have one at the multilateral level., the world's just coming out of COP 30. a really kind of happening cop for the first time in an Amazonian city in BM in Brazil. and it was supposed to be a COP where adaptation was. and you know one of the things that came out just around the time that COP began this year was that the gap in what are the adaptation needs for developing countries among which are the most vulnerable countries in the world and between what is actually coming in is is you know between like 310 or 365 billion would be the needs versus about 26 billion that has actually come in just for adaptation. So the gap for adaptation financing has historically been really high and it continues to be so. And so the ask at the multilateral level from countries of the global south or developing countries has long been to provide you know adequate additional and highly concession where required and more of grants space finance not loans for adaptation particularly because compared to mitigation or emission reductions there's even lesser of a business case for the lack of a better word when it comes to adaptation. So really the equity ask over there is for historical emitters and just responsible countries and countries with more economic capability to lend more money for adaptation and loss and damage. similarly at this cop as well for the fund for responding to loss and damage which really you know is an example of the power of people demanding something from a multinational space that is equally driven. the applications for the first call for filling it for 250 million worth of grants to fill up the fund for loss and damage were made. So that's that's some kind of progress I guess given given the bleak times we live in. Let me bring in Alexander for the sake of time and Alexander look I mean if you look at a country like Jamaica for example the economic damages of recent climate disasters on the island was 40% of GDP which is quite quite a quite a substantial figure. So given the scale and the frequency of these disasters that we're seeing, what do you think donor countries, international financial institutions,, climate funds should prioritize right away and so that they can start to build some sort of resilience. Well again you you have to think both preventing which is adaptation and Benjamin for explained that there are some solution that are called naturebased solution that are very important to place like you know simply mangroves and protect the mangroves and so on and then you have also to think of reconstruction and that's the case for instance in Jamaica what is happening is that again the the the the international cooperation and and here we are talking about the region. There are some mechanism that are existing at the international level like the loss and damage funds and at the the regional level there is also a a fund called the catastrophic Caribbean risk initiative in order to help these countries to recover and it's mainly grants but it's extremely difficult for many countries for many developed countries to commit for large amounts and and we see that with time the impact 40p you imaging 40% of the GDP here for Jamaica and we see that more and more in in some other countries it can be even higher and it's extremely difficult to commit for for developed countries for grants at the international level. So really here it's it's important to keep working on bilateral or multilateral instruments to be able to recover. And in fact what I'm always saying is that you see also that very often the diaspora play a very important role hidden role in terms of transfer and that's something that's also welcomed. It's it's almost 90% of of the transfer are are coming from the diaspora. In another country where we have enough time to look at what happened a couple of years ago, 90% was coming from the diaspora in the United States and only 10% from the international community. So everything is is in place to be able to increase these volumes. it's it's just that these numbers are always getting high. It's it's really difficult to to follow the increasing cost of these events and that's very worrying. Okay, we'll have to leave it there. thank you so much for joining this discussion with us on inside story Alexand Rahaja and Benjamin Horton. Thanks so much. Thanks for watching. END OF TRANSCRIPT